
VISITOR’S VOICE
Interview with CSEAS Visitng Scholars
Visitor’s Voice is a series of interviews to showcase our fellows while they stay with us at CSEAS
VISITOR’S VOICE
May 2025
The Politics of Pluralism: Ideas and Challenges in Indonesia
Interview with Al Makin
CSEAS Visiting Research Scholar: May to July 2025

PROFILE
Al Makin is a professor at UIN Sunan Kalijaga, Indonesia, specializing in philosophy and the sociology of religion, with research focusing on pluralism, interfaith communication, the New Religious Movement, politics and religion, and contemporary Muslim society.
CONTENTS
About Research
— What are the most surprising or exciting findings you have uncovered so far?
Scholars have largely overlooked the plural reality of Islam’s emergence. Throughout the seventh century, Muhammad was not the only prophet, and Islam was not the only religious movement to surface on the Arabian Peninsula. My dissertation discusses numerous prophets from various tribes across the peninsula. I currently research Musaylima, a Yamama prophet and contemporary of Prophet Muhammad, who was born in Mecca and then moved to Medina.
Through my research, I have also discovered a range of religions much more diverse than the six officially recognized by the Indonesian government. Indeed, hundreds of religious groups were founded by indigenous Indonesian “prophets” between the colonial and reform periods. Furthermore, the official six religions are comprised of several sects, schools, and denominations. These facts reflect Indonesia’s complex religiosity and spirituality.
In conducting fieldwork on numerous Indonesian islands, I have witnessed unique and creative practices of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Protestantism, and Confucianism. The relationships between followers of various religions beg scholarly explanation. Many local traditions provide recipes and formulas for harmony. However, political, social, and economic factors influence their dynamic interactions and relationships.
— What tools, must-have gear, or methods are essential to your work, and why?
We must read more in-depth literature and conduct more fieldwork in Indonesia, which has thousands of islands, ethnicities, and religious groups. The adaptation of global religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Confucianism, and Christianity, to local traditions and cultures has resulted in distinct identities, rituals, and interpretations. More effort is needed to clarify this.
Research Inspiration
— Is there a specific moment or event that made you decide to enter this field?
Research is a peaceful realm, but it is full of adventure. I gained leadership experience in bureaucracy and administration while serving as rector of my university. My research experiences have helped me to listen to and appreciate other points of view, proposals, and views. However, the worlds of politics, leadership, and social engagement are dynamic and transient. In my view, research is steadier and more lasting than politics, serving as a source of knowledge that can change our reality. More research is required, particularly in the social, religious, and political spheres, so that society may be guided with a clearer view of reality.
— Is there a memorable episode with an impactful person(s), place, or thing that you encountered while doing your research?
I am often inspired by my field travels to Indonesia’s islands and meetings with religious leaders. I became friends with many religious leaders, including Lia Eden (the prophetess of the Eden Community), Achmad Mushaddeq (the prophet and founder of Qiyadah Islamiyah, Gafatar, and Millah Abraham), Raja Mulia Naipospos (the leader of Parmalim in Sumatera), other Ahmadiyah, Shia, Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, and Buddhist leaders, and others. I appreciate learning from various leaders. I do not limit my learning to leaders of mainstream Muslim organizations. For example, I learned a significant amount about prosecution in my nation by attending the court proceedings of Gafatar leaders convicted of blasphemy against Islam. I also testified as an expert witness in the court review of Indonesia’s blasphemy law, which has been used to sentence numerous religious leaders to prison.
— What major challenge have you encountered during your research?
When we strive to befriend people from different religious organizations, skepticism and distrust can readily arise within our religious group. This is true of the Muslim majority, whether Muhammadiyah or Nahdlatul Ulama. However, we may explain to our friends that we are serving as a bridge to facilitate communication and improve relationships between different groups.
— What strategies do you employ to sustain your motivation and enthusiasm throughout long-term research projects?
Friendship with fellow researchers, exchanges of ideas, and sharing of experiences motivate me to continue conducting what may appear to be an uninteresting study. New acquaintances made throughout the fieldwork add to the delight. Traveling to the field sites on many Indonesian islands is entertaining. Similarly, attending conferences and hearing about the experiences of other researchers is always fascinating. I enjoy travelling around Indonesia and overseas for research purposes.
— What gives you the most satisfaction in your work?
Appreciation from other coworkers, whether critical or approving. Another source of joy is that our research and publications have an impact on policy in our society. I believe that my research on the diversity and plurality of religions in Indonesia is well-received both in Indonesia and internationally.
Societal Impact
— How do you envision your research being utilized, developed, and contributing to society in the long term?
When I finished my dissertation on Musaylima, I was concerned about its publication. From 2008 to 2010, I was cautious when discussing my dissertation. But today, I discuss Musaylima in Bahasa Indonesia on several YouTube podcasts. I also made short videos about early Islam, which differs from the beliefs and faith of the Sunni Islam in Indonesia today. Time has passed, and Muslims in Indonesia appear to be open to hearing more about Islam’s pluralism and other religions throughout history.
When I began researching the Eden group in 2010, its leader, Lia Aminuddin, had recently been released from prison on charges of violating Indonesia’s blasphemy law. During that period, claimants to prophethood and leaders of New Religious Movements in Indonesia were routinely arrested and tried. In 2013, I began researching the Gafatar movement, which included another prophetic claimant, Achmad Mushaddeq. I attended his court trials and served as an expert witness. Indonesian society has evolved in such a way that people have become less reactive to differences. We are more tolerant than before.
While serving as rector of Sunan Kalijaga University from 2020 to 2024, I invited several religious leaders to my campus to provide lectures on the basics of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity. The audience at my university appreciated new perspectives from various religions. I now believe that Indonesians are more tolerant of diverse faiths. However, accepting diversity in the political realm remains difficult, as morality, integrity, and ethical principles are inconsistent. To be honest, manipulation and corruption are still widespread in Indonesia.
— How does your research contribute to addressing societal challenges or improving current situations?
I express my views on pluralism, tolerance, interfaith dialogue, and minority issues through Indonesian media outlets such as Kompas, Jakarta Post, Sindonews, Rmol, Jawa Pos, and Tempo. I have developed relationships with numerous religious leaders who embrace pluralism. I believe that pluralism, whether in politics, administration, or bureaucracy, should be accompanied by integrity, honesty, and morality.
— Who are your key collaborators?
My principal collaborators are religious, social, and political leaders who implement policy through rules. On numerous occasions, I have argued for the examination of discriminatory laws, such as blasphemy laws, as well as equal religious and faith rights, such as the ability to erect places of worship.
— Reflecting on your journey, what qualities or habits do you think are essential for researchers?
It is crucial to build and develop one’s network, as well as make new acquaintances and develop collaborations. We cannot bring about change in our culture alone. We need all aspects of our society to work together. Plural, tolerant, just, and moral communities require effort and courage to work together.
Life Beyond Research
— How do you balance the demands of research with maintaining a fulfilling personal life?
In my spare time, I paint on canvas (and host art exhibitions) to express my thoughts on diversity, tolerance, and interfaith communication. I also scuba dive in the waters of many of Indonesia’s islands. I enjoy swimming, biking, table tennis, and tennis.
— What was the most difficult moment or challenge in your life?
Bridging the gap between reality and research is challenging. I experienced this when I took a leave of absence from research after being appointed rector of my university. I used my research experiences in diversity, tolerance, and interfaith dialogue to lead university policy and practice to reach a wider Indonesian audience.
— If you were not a researcher, what do you think you would be doing?
Scuba diving allows me to witness the bleaching of corals and dying marine life, making me very aware of environmental damage related to global warming. I express myself not only via writing, but also through the creation of images in my paintings. I am an artist who has held several exhibitions. If I were not a researcher, I would likely do more diving and create more art.
Advice for the Next Generation
— What advice would you give to younger scholars or young people interested in pursuing a career in your field or in becoming a researcher?
The current situation for scholars and researchers, particularly in social and religious studies, is certainly not easy. Funding is difficult to obtain in Indonesia, and possibly also internationally. I would advise the younger generation to continue working; nobody knows what will happen. Hopefully, the situation will improve in the future. Enjoy as much research and writing as possible.
— What is one piece of advice you wish you had received earlier in your career?
I believe I was fortunate in that I was exposed to several scholarly works and reputable scholars when I was young. In my hometown of Yogyakarta, I met many dedicated researchers and bright intellectuals who shaped the dynamics of Indonesia. When I moved to Canada for my MA, I discovered excellent mentors and role models. Similarly, when I worked on my PhD in Germany, I met some great researchers. Furthermore, I consider myself quite fortunate and grateful to have completed numerous fellowships in Singapore, Australia, Germany, and now Japan. Simply connecting with accomplished scholars is stimulating. Keep looking for mentors and role models; that is what I wanted to hear.
— Do you have any essential reads (books) that you recommend to younger people?
All books benefit our soul, spirituality, and moral strength. I enjoy reading a variety of books, some of which are useful for specific situations and contexts, while others are for general inspiration.
Looking Ahead
— What is the next step in your research journey?
I would like to write a satisfying book about Indonesian religions and present the materials on multiple occasions to gather input and feedback before and during the writing process.
— What is your vision for the future of your field?
My findings, as well as those of others, should be considered in policymaking in Indonesia, a country rich in diversity with various religions, cultures, creativities, and innovations. Indonesia may make a significant contribution to the evolution of plural societies based on faiths, cultures, and religious movements.
— What research topics do you believe will be essential for the future of the region?
Pluralism and morality.
* The views expressed herein are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Center for Southeast Asian Studies, Kyoto University.
Al Makin earned his BA from the State Institute of Islamic Studies Sunan Kalijaga in 1995, his MA from McGill University in 1999, and his PhD from Heidelberg University in 2008. His dissertation on Musaylima, a prophetic claimant during the time of the Prophet Muhammad, was published as Representing the Enemy: Musaylima in Muslim Literature (Peter Lang, 2010). He is also the author of Challenging Islamic Orthodoxy: Accounts of Lia Eden and Other Prophets in Indonesia (Springer, 2016), and has published extensively in academic journals. He has held research fellowships at the University of Western Sydney (2013), the Asia Research Institute at the National University of Singapore (2011–2012), and Bochum University (2010). Moreover, he served as the rector of Sunan Kalijaga State Islamic University from 2020 to 2024.
Other publications
Makin, A. 2017. Homogenizing Indonesian Islam: Persecution of the Shia Group in Yogyakarta. Studia Islamika, 24(1): 1-32.
Makin, A. 2017. ‘Not a Religious State’: A study of three Indonesian religious leaders on the relation of state and religion. Indonesia and the Malay World, 46(135): 95–116.
Makin, A. 2019. Returning to the Religion of Abraham: Controversies over the Gafatar Movement in Contemporary Indonesia. Islam and Christian–Muslim Relations, 30(1): 87–104.
For complete works
Visitor’s Voice is a series of interviews to showcase our fellows while they stay with us at CSEAS. The interview highlights their research activities while also introducing the people and episodes behind the work, must-haves for field research and writing, book recommendations, future ambitions, etc., in a question-and-answer format.